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 I have used to USA but India is my homeYears after she opted out of the Mumbai film industry's rat race, married a successful NRI doctor, became a mother of two cherubic sons, Madhuri Dixit still captivates millions with her ethereal beauty, electrifying dance numbers and fabulous histrionic abilities. Madhubala, Nutan and Waheeda Rahman rolled into one, Madhuri's writ ran unchallenged for over a decade, almost threatening to upset the industry's male domination. Currently in India for a few months, she is not averse to returning to the big screen if a 'just right' role comes her way. In a conversation with Chandan Mitra at her relatively modest Juhu apartment, the Queen of Hearts opens up
You have been shuttling between India and the US after marriage, spending a few months a year in both places. Do you find it easy to adjust to two very different cultures and lifestyles? I mean, you are a celebrity here but in the US you probably aren't mobbed. Are you okay with the contrast?
Actually, I haven't exactly been shuttling. This is my second longish stay in India. Travelling with two babies is not easy. But I have never had a problem adjusting to cultural differences between India and America. I have been visiting the States for more than 20 years now. My siblings all settled there long back. There are other relatives too. So I am quite used to the lifestyle in the US. At the same time, India is home. How can one have adjustment problems here? The only thing is that in the US I can be myself even outside my house. I step out onto the road and I am comfortable. In India I need to be accompanied, otherwise I would be surrounded by fans and other curious people.
But there are Indians everywhere in the world now. Surely you meet Indians settled in America every time you go to a mall or restaurant?
True, but there's a difference. Indians here would mob me. There they come up politely, ask for an autograph or a picture to be taken with them, exchange some pleasantries and carry on. That's fine actually; in fact, it feels good to be approached admiringly. But you understand what I mean. Here one can't afford to be carefree.
What brings you to India for longish spells, since you are quite well settled there? Is it true that you plan to resume a film career and are looking out for good roles?
I am listening to scripts. But I will sign a film only if there is something exciting in it for me. I am not hankering for a role, but I always enjoyed acting and would not mind returning to the floors if there is a good, challenging role.
Ready to play mother on screen yet?
No, not yet. But obviously, I can't play a flighty teenager either. So the role has to be just right for me at this point of time in my life and career. You may be surprised to know that producers have been seeing me with precisely such kinds of "just right" roles. Story writing, scripts and even ideas have become much more varied and mature since the days I joined cinema. There are many more intelligent writers today than before. Nowadays scripts don't put you into moulds and stereotype your role and dialogue. Actually, the multiplex revolution has helped Hindi cinema grow up thematically. Smaller, niche audiences allow directors to break away from so called formula.
Now that you have achieved every success that commercial cinema could have given you in terms of money, fame and critical acclaim, how about working in parallel cinema?
Parallel cinema is a different language of cinematic expression and I am quite okay with it. I don't mind doing meaningful films, such as Mrityudand or even Dharavi. They certainly qualified as parallel. But I will not act in dull, boring films that are made only for film festivals. I don't mean to run down festivals. There are some very good films shown in them. But if I act in a film I want people, not just critics, to see it.
What do you regard as some of your best roles? Is it true that Mrityudand figures on top of that list because it was a woman-centric film?
Did you know that in parts of North India, Bihar and Eastern UP in particular, there were reports that men stopped the women of their households from watching Mrityudand? I was told they were worried that their women might pick up some ideas from the strong character I played in that film. I hope things have changed since then, but when I was told about this by some friends I thought it was a great tribute to my role. So, obviously, Mrityudand features on my list of favourites; so does Beta in which I again played the role of a bahu who refused to fit into the stereotype of the submissive woman.
I love playing strong characters and I am lucky I got many such roles - Raja and Anjaam come to mind immediately, despite Shah Rukh Khan and I being at each other's throats on the sets of Anjaam! Then, of course, I hugely enjoyed Dil To Pagal Hai and Hum Aapke Hain Kaun. Both were underplayed roles. DTPH was not an easy role because one had to transcreate a concept, an imagination, into a flesh-and-blood character. Two other films I must add to this list, Prem Pratigya and Sangeet. Some of them may not have been superhits, but they were very good films and I cherish my roles in them.
Millions of women see you as a role model, not just of success but also of the new Indian female persona. Have you consciously carved this image for yourself?
I have never bothered to be anybody's role model, so the idea of doing anything consciously doesn't come up. I grew up in a big family. I assimilated a string of values from my family. I always had a good, caring home. My parents stood by me in everything I did; they encouraged me to shape an independent career. My husband too shares those values. He does not expect me to be the meek, submissive, adarsh Bharatiya nari-type. He doesn't "forbid" me to work, nor does he push me into it, he wants me to do what makes me happy. It's my decision to make. I believe the most liberating thing in the world is to live life on your own terms and that is what I have tried to do.
My husband and I are on the same wavelength on this and I believe that is the only sustainable basis for a successful marriage. I am no bra-burning feminist, never had such ideas. But I am a believer in equality. In fact, that is a value I derived from my family. We are three sisters and one brother. We all got the same treatment. Curfew hours for returning home in the evening were the same for us girls and our brother. The family deliberated on issues involving each one of us. When I decided to seek a career in cinema, the whole family sat and debated the pros and cons.
Had you not become a film actress what would you have wanted to be?
No doubt about it, a microbiologist. I always wanted to be one; I was training for it. But once I opted to join films, the family backed me and my mother was with me all the way. That's what I would want to do for my kids.
To aspire to be a microbiologist, it's necessary to be a good student. Does that mean you were the studious type?
Yes, I was quite a good student in school. But besides studies, I was active culturally, especially dancing. I was a good dancer.
I understand that paved the way for your entry into the film world?
Yes. When I was in Class VIII I was offered two films on dancing. Actually, I was a good Kathak dancer. But my family thought it wouldn't be right to even consider doing a film so early. We had this friend working in Rajshri Productions, and they were looking for a new face. He knew me and my family, and the fact that I danced. He asked if I would be interested, and he was pretty convincing. There was this offer walking to my door, so we thought there must be something to it. I was in Class XII then. So, we went to meet them, and I was interviewed by the patriarch of the Rajshri clan, Tarachand Barjatya and Rajbabu. They picked up a Hindi novel and asked me to read from the back cover...
Why the back cover?
Basically they wanted to test my Hindi diction. Many Maharashtrians have a thick Marathi accent, which fortunately I never did. So, when I read the back cover aloud quite flawlessly, they were very satisfied and said they would get back to us.
Months passed and we never heard anything. I got fed up waiting for a call. I used to love short hair, and pestered my mom to let me cut it. She said fine, and I cut my hair short, really short, a page-boy cut. Just three days after that, the call came: I had been chosen to play the heroine in Rajshri's next production, Abodh. They were shocked to see my new look, long hair was a must for my role!
I distinctly remember we started shooting on April 2. For the first 10 days, they just shot me at random, absolutely innocuous stuff to get me oriented with the camera. That was a wonderful thing the Rajshri people did. By the time the actual shoot began, I had forgotten what it was to be camera-conscious. Anyway, at that time I was not looking to be a star. I thought I'd do a couple of films for experience and thrill and then go back to studies.
I assume destiny had other plans for you...
Exactly - destiny is the word. I am a believer in fate because I've experienced how one thing leads to the next, helping me scale new heights. While I was undecided about pursuing a film career, I had accepted a dancing role in Sohan Lal Kanwar's Aawara Baap. One day, Subhash Ghai dropped in at the location and Sohan Lalji introduced me to him. Subhashji was quite impressed with my dancing and promptly gave me a small dancing role in Karma, which he was shooting at the time. Saroj Khan was the choreographer and she too thought I was good.
During that shoot, Subhashji told me I must not accept small roles any more and that he would project me as the next big thing to happen to Bollywood. I couldn't believe it when he started taking out full page ads in film papers about me. I had never thought he was that serious, else I would have been scared! He also signed me for Uttar Dakshin around the same time. By a quirk of fate N Chandra's Tezaab released just before Uttar Dakshin. And my Ek, do, teen number in Tezaab kind of made history.
As I was saying, life is like a shawl, it weaves itself into intricate patterns, everything is connected. My role in Tezaab happened because N Chandra was editing a Telugu film, which incidentally was never released. In that film, I had performed a dance number. He saw it while editing, was impressed and offered me the Tezaab role. I told you about my accidental meeting with Subhashji. Once I became a hit with his Ram Lakhan, there was no looking back.
It's obvious you enjoy dancing and it is this talent that led you into the world of films. But as a stage dancer by training, how did you adjust to dancing for films? Aren't the two very different?
Very, very different. Film dancing is so restrictive! The dancer has no freedom. You are in the hands of the choreographer. Of course, there are some really good choreographers like Saroj Khan who went through all my actions in Ek, do, teen in great detail and conditioned me for the number. In its time, this sequence was path-breaking. Also, my Tezaab role was very powerful - a daughter being exploited by her father, quite a dramatic story that people liked.
Do you think you made it big in movies only because you could dance?
Dancing has always been integral to Hindi cinema. Most heroines of yesteryear were celebrated dancers. Name any - Vyjayanthimala, Waheeda Rehman, later Hema Malini, they were all terrific dancers. It is important that anybody hoping to make it to the top should know how to dance. But dancing alone cannot ensure success. Acting talent goes hand in hand. Let me illustrate: My film Sailab had this great dance number and hit song. Yet it flopped badly. But looking back, I take pride in my versatility. Even if you keep superhits from Tezaab, Beta and Khalnayak aside, I think Que sera sera, Mera piya ghar aaya and even Maar daala from Devdas underline the fact that I can dance to a whole range of compositions. I believe people will remember me for those.
It is alleged that to get a break in Bollywood, especially if you don't have a godfather, it is necessary to go through the casting couch route. Given your middle-class, non-filmi background, did you face the pressures of the casting couch?
No I didn't. It's probably because of my background and also the fact that I was never desperate to make it. I was content doing what came my way. I just kept doing my work and enjoying whatever I did. Actually I still retain that attitude about everything in life. I did not hanker after stardom; I don't hanker after things even now. I believe I am good at my work, that's why people appreciated me and gave me breaks.
There is another important thing about the so-called casting couch. People exploit you if they find you vulnerable, without a support system like the family. In my case, my support system was very strong. Even after I became a big celebrity, my mother accompanied me everywhere. Nobody dared approach me with any sinister ideas.
As a child or teenager, were you fascinated with films? Did you ever dream of making it to the movies?
God! We didn't even have a TV set at home! What does one say about watching movies regularly! There was just one black-and-white set in our society and all the children would run there to watch Chhaya Geet on Doordarshan every Thursday. It was Thursday, wasn't it? But it wasn't like we never saw movies. If a film was reviewed well and recommended in the Times of India, Daddy would sometimes take the whole family to watch it.
But surely you caught up with Hindi films later. Who are the directors you regret not having worked with, I mean those who were before your time?
Oh, so many. I am a great admirer of Bimal Roy, Guru Dutt, K Asif. Sometimes I think Nutanji was really lucky to have been not only so talented but also born at a time when there were such great directors. Some of them, Bimal Roy and Guru Dutt particularly, were actually ahead of their time. Just imagine if I had been able to do Bandini or Sujata! In fact, I could do all of Nutanji's roles!
Do you keep up with present Bollywood fare through DVDs in the US? Does your husband see your old movies?
Where is the time to watch movies, on DVD or any other way, with two growing kids running all over the place? Because of them, these days I end up watching a lot of cartoon films! As for my husband, people don't believe me when I tell them he has watched just two of my films - Gaja Gamini and Devdas. That's it! He's not much into movies.
Gaja Gamini, that brings me to why you did such a movie... Wasn't it destined to flop?
I didn't do it for commercial reasons. Husain sahib's energy and enthusiasm at his age are not just remarkable but also infectious. Because I appreciate his energy and vision, I decided to go along with it. His mind is phenomenally agile; he is thinking up new ideas all the time. He explained to me that he wanted to paint on celluloid. If you have seen the movie you would agree that each frame in Gaja Gamini is a picture, a painting. Yes, it was worth doing it.
You've been coming to Mumbai and spending some time here. You are listening to scripts, meeting producers and directors. Doesn't this suggest you are keen to resume your film career? And that you are perhaps missing the glare of the arclights?
No, no, I don't miss the hoo-haa of the film world. I am very happy being a mother. I spend my entire day being a full-time mother. Besides, Ram (Dr Shriram Nene) has lots of friends, they come over, we go over, travel. But our concerns, and those of our friends, revolve around the kids. I always wanted to enjoy motherhood fully, starting with pregnancy. And I have done exactly that.
But I must tell you - I do miss my work. Acting is my craft. I like it. I enjoy working in films. I love to face the camera. Still, I won't accept anything and everything just because I miss giving expression to my craft. The role has to be right for me to do at that point of time.
How do you react when people call you the industry's female Amitabh Bachchan - the one heroine who could carry an entire film on her shoulders?
Hello! Do you mind! I just want to be known as Madhuri Dixit, not female anybody else. Would Amitji be delighted if someone described him as the male Madhuri? But, at the same time, it is flattering to be bracketed in the same league as an icon like Amitji.
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